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Talk:Opposed check
Sub-type of skill check ? Is the opposed check a subset of skill checks? If so, it may be worth mentioning it and linking to that article as well. E.g. "An opposed check is a type of skill check that occurs when ..." I am tempted to edit this, but I don't feel familiar enough with the terms. FWIW, in various articles, there is mention of a "skill check" (in many places), an "opposed check" (in pick pocket and knockdown), an "opposed test" (in hide and search), and an "opposed roll" (in appraise, improved parry, and concentration). I have been sort of assuming that the latter three are the same and are a subclass of the skill check, but I don't know if some differences distinguish them (e.g. perhaps sometimes a tie goes to the defender, sometimes to the attacker, etc.) I don't know what the proper terminology is, but if someone knows it may be worth clarifying. (And I'd be happy to do some editing if a definitive answer shows up here.) - MrZork 21:30, November 11, 2010 (UTC) * I think "opposed check" is always short for "opposed skill check", a special type of skill check. "Opposed test" and "opposed roll" are more general terms than "opposed check", and I would guess their use in those articles is just for variety. An opposed roll is when you have competing sides and each gets to roll a die, while a skill check is when someone rolls a die and adds a skill to it. An opposed check is both an opposed roll and a skill check. I do not know why this article is in the saving throw category. When I get a chance, I'll look around and see if I can find a reason for it being there. --The Krit 20:04, November 12, 2010 (UTC) Example accurate ? Should the numbers in the discipline check reflect the -4 penalty to attack for knockdown attempts in the attack roll? I am adding (subtracting?) that from the example. - MrZork 21:30, November 11, 2010 (UTC) * I think not, as that would already be incorporated into the attack bonus. A better question would be why the size bonus is being added to the attack roll instead of the skill. (I'd guess the reason is that there used to be a bug where the discipline size bonus did affect the attack roll.) Or maybe the right question to ask is if there is a simpler example that would be better to use? Something without extra modifiers to acknowledge, maybe concentration vs. taunt? --The Krit 20:11, November 12, 2010 (UTC) Are opposed checks directional? When (for example) a Taunt is attempted, it is clear where the skill check has been originated... the taunter. Any ties in the result will go to the taunter. But what above passive opposed checks like the stealth/detection ones? Suppose a PC enters a area where a hiding NPC is. What is the check? PC's Spot vs. NPC's Hide or NPC's Hide vs. PC's Spot? It's different, due to the ties that are associated with the originator of the check. Consider a typical roll. PC Spot level 10 rolls a 5 vs. NPC Hide Level 14 rolling a 1. Who wins? What if the NPC begins to move? PC Listen level 15 rolls a 10 vs. the NPC Mov Sil Level 20 rolling a 5. Like I said, it depends on which character is considered the originator of the check, which is not obvious like many other opposed checks. Any tips how to evaluate this? TIA --Iconclast (talk) 00:21, January 14, 2013 (UTC) * I would guess hide and move silently provide DCs, while spot and listen are "originators" who get the ties. In a sense, detecting is the activity that a hider is trying to avoid (like taunting is the activity that one tries to avoid via concentration). Plus, spot says the DC is determined by the hide check, and when Brenon Holmes posted the various factors affecting stealth and detection, the modifiers were phrased as modifiers to detection DCs. On the other hand, if the direction of ties matters, you'll probably get stung by one of the miscellaneous modifiers. :) : By the way, one does not need to move to generate a listen vs. move silently check -- "move silently" includes "standing silently" (as in not breathing too loudly, etc.). --The Krit (talk) 17:14, January 14, 2013 (UTC) :* I suspected this (what you just described, TK) was the effective dynamic in an obscure aspect of the game this query seeks to understand. Your logic makes a lot of sense so I'll stick with that until/unless some evidence arises to contradict it. Rolling a d20 on each side of the check makes testing very difficult but the ties were important to resolve beforehand. Also, did not realize Mv Sil would be checked without movement. Good point. ;) --Iconclast (talk) 22:03, January 14, 2013 (UTC)